If this came under a better pope, I might find it encouraging. But not only is Francis on the edge of apostasy, but he has so stacked the College of Cardinals that I do not expect to see a genuinely orthodox pope in my lifetime.
And remember Francis is a Peronist. What he says often depends on his audience.
Not on the edge of Apostasy...IS APOTATE to place the Demon Pachamama Earth Goddess Idol on the Alter and has supported and behaved of heresy in his time in The Vatican with all The Bible defines abomination. Priests and Bishops removed from their positions due to sexual debauchery and pedophilia, after having spread their evil or perpetrating Financial Scandal being returned to the Heirarchy of Power in The Vatican is unthinkable. All is PROOF of those viewing The Roman Catholic Church evil to be correct even if they weren't before.
WILL NEVER VIEW BERGOGLIO AS ANY POPE IN HIS ALLEGIANCE TO HELL WITH THE BLACK NOBILITY DEMONS FROM THE CITY OF LONDON NOW IN THE VATICAN CREATING THEIR PAGAN CHRISLAM; their New/One World Religion.
Will continue with worship as always before with The Holy Bible and our Triune God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Amen.
What do you mean by APOTATE? What do you mean by the Demon Pachamama Earth Goddess on the Alter (do you mean Altar?)? None of those are in the Bible. What do you mean by the black nobility demons from the city of London? Again, not in the Bible. What do you mean by "CHRISLAM"? Your post is confusing and hard to read. Please clarify. Thank you.
Chrislam is NOT my word or definition...It's the City of London's plan for their 'One World Religion' based in both Christianity and Islam together. The word is not 'Apotate'; it's 'ApoState' which is a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle.
By placing a Native Idol named Pachamama Fertility Goddess on the Alter in St. Peter's Basilica; he placed a FOREIGN GOD on the alter to worship and there are several Idols also reported to be buried in the Gardens.
I have NOT avoided you or your comments/responses. People do have a real life and this is a busy time for our business in the Farm Co-op. We're beginning the harvest while also continuing to plant and weed...Process the harvest and sell to consumers in our area. Beyond the animals and family, there's little time to keep up with Email or any Social Media. It's NOT a priority.
If you need answers...They're here to be read. Yes, I do read The Bible and have loads of Education with Christianity as well as other religions of the world. Your opinon of my Faith doesn't concern me in any way...As God's opinion is the only one mattering.
Beyond The Bible; there's now loads of information in Alternative Media pertaining to this current darkness now threatening Earth and all organic life. Nobody having any wisdom would not seek information about the reality of existence on Earth at this time. This time was prophesized in The Bible; however the general details were not painted clearly and there are ways to battle this evil as God does expect us to help ourselves; to step out in faith to do what we can and he'll take the reigns to win the day.
In any way...Nothing but love Greg Doyle and positive regard for all. God Bless and Keep You.
I too read the old and new testaments with an interlinear bible and a concordance. Not trying to convert anyone, but if you'd like to discuss the Triune god concept without rancor and gotchas, I will be happy to give biblical proofs for my beliefs.
Don't need to know your beliefs. Your beliefs have nothing to do with history...It's already done and can't be changed. Your responses in future events are yet to be determined and your Faith in whatever may or may not result from that...It's up to you.
disagree about beliefs and history. The bible is a history book. We know a part of truth through human history. But if you're on your own path, may you find the father and the son.
The Bible is not a history book in the way that most people would understand a history book. It is an historical document of God interacting with the people, through revelation, to give a salvation history. If the Bible was simply a history book, as you seem to claim, were humans created first or last by God? It must be one or the other, read the first few chapters of Genesis,
Nothing about your Faith can ever change past history as it's already been. Already do have faith and it's been a blessing for a whole lifetime. Not only do we have the Father and the Son....There's also the Holy Spirit which lives within us. It sounds as though you have the Holy Spirit and that's all that matters.
The VENETIAN Black Nobility (Black was assigned to their identity as a symbol of the evil they've perpetrated to steal power and feed unending greed at the cost of anybody and everybody). They are the descendants of the Babylonians and survivors of the fall of Rome. Consist of the Banking Houses, Monarchical Houses of Europe and Saudi Arabia, Corporatists originating in more recent times in The British East India Trading Company which was once 'Dutch'. The British Commonwealth was to legitimize the criminal British East India Trading Company...The actual owner of the Opium Trade to this day and the group now owning the Cocaine Trade in the Western Hemisphere since El Chapo was removed as the Boss. This is the group BUILDING BACK BETTER Infrastructure to enslave people and to facilitate transport of both illicit and legal product; slaves, drugs, weapons, rare foods, art, jewels, precious metals, etc.
These groups are today located in The City of London within Greater London and are now Internationally organized out of Switzerland since WWII with the Bankers, The Crown Corporation made up with the Monarchs and Peer Fabianists out of Oxford/Cambridge, and Multi-National Corporations around the world.
They manage and run the world, are the DEATH CULT as an International Mafia. THIS IS THE SHADOW GOVT. OF THE WORLD INCLUDING THE U.S. They hid behind the people of The British Isles for 800 years and now they hide behind the U.S. primarily as their MAFIA ENFORCER as well as the Nations they define, 'The Five Eyes' which is Canada, Australia, New Zealand besides the U.S. and Britain. Part of the Network is also Israel...But, they use it for their purposes as INFRASTRUCTURE TO MOVE PRODUCT INTO EUROPE FROM ASIA AND FOR ESPIONAGE.
They're demonic, rapists, murderers, torturers...While claiming to be Jewish, Christain, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or any world religion. They have no loyalty to any religion or ethnic group or nation; merely greed and Absolute Power are their interests. TOTAL POWER AND CONTROL. They seek to steal God's creation inclusive of humanity.
Agree...And, the United States more than any other Nation. It was consecrated to doing the work of Jesus Christ at its inception; the only nation of the world to be so by human choice as Israel was a command from God before humans followed through.
U.S has been more blessed than any other on Earth and has fallen away from God with its leadership being of Hell by the FREE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. This Nation's people most certainly are going to pay a high cost.
Sorry, no. The United States was not consecrated to doing the work of Jesus Christ at its inception. Any facts to support your claim? If the United States was indeed consecrated to doing the work of Jesus Christ at its inception, why was slavery allowed?
Sounds like you are living in your own spiritual world, apart from the Christian or any other religious tradition. Likewise, apart from any reliance on sacred texts like the Bible or the Koran. Best wishes to you.
Anyway, I see Francis as demented. He accepts and espouses abomination: same sex "unions", pedophilia, one world government. He supports climate change directives without noticing how much this may hurt people who aren't extremely wealthy.
I wish he were off the world stage. (This doesn't mean I'm hoping he dies.)
Pope Francis is not demented. Just because you disagree with some of his statements does not make him demented. Similarly, the fact that you disagree with some of his statements does not make you demented.
Pachamama can be found Online in Wikipedia...It's a Native American Fertility Goddess; The Earth Mother Goddess of Fertility commanding 'Human Sacrifice' with her consorts among the men as Chiefs/Witch Doctors of Tribes. She is to be buried to promote fertility in the Earth or for conception of children.
Bergoglio placed it on the alter in St. Peter's Basilica as though to worship it. It was taken from the alter and thrown into the Tiber River. Bergoglio was exceedingly angry. It's reported he also is especially connected to a church in Rome associated with Witchcraft in the past including Satanic/Luciferian Ceremonies.
I've looked at the statue of the fertility goddess. I've read that the pope put some in the vatican gardens and blessed them.
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm not catholic, but I do know this is an especially weird twist to the pope. He just seems to get more demented and evil, but maybe it's just being exposed.
Take care, Blaze. This poison can really drive us crazy, too.
Yes, he is from Argentina where this Idol has long been worshiped...And, his current affiliation and connection to a church in Rome desecrated with Witchcraft and The Earth Mother Goddess while presenting itself associated with the Virgin Mary as reported in 'Church Militant years ago is verified true.
Thank you for answering and being polite. Not in agreement about the mother of Messiah as espoused by the nominal christian churches. I don't worship or "venerate" her. Peace.
On what basis are you judging the Pope? Are you Catholic? What apostasy do you believe he might be guilty of? On what basis do you as an individual determine who is or is not an orthodox Pope? Thank you.
I tend to agree with you that this will legitimatize the progressive capture of the already existing synods and conferences of bishops. As things stand today, Rome is thoroughly captured by modernism — a vigorous traditionalist movement notwithstanding (and this is the very group who will reject Francis's overtures).
It’s not just modernism, it a propensity for embracing doublethink and doublespeak, or calling Christians to ignore the contradictions hitting us in the face like a sledgehammer. As an inheritor of the truest Old Catholic legacy of the Scranton communion , Fr Robinson, by definition, SHOULD be calling for Rome to throw out their false contradictory dogmas of Vaticans 1&2, which, by virtue of their manifest contradictions, mutually destroy one another with their ridiculously impossible incompatibilities. “God is not the author of confusion”, therefore God is NOT the author of these schemas, whatever else is.
Ecumenism that demands we ignore incoherent nonsense is prelest of the worst kind!
Do you have any specific examples of false contradictory dogmas of Vatican I and II? Would you agree that the Church, like all of us, are on a journey during our lifetimes and are always working toward a better understanding of the mystery of God and the best way to try to express that mystery in language?
Moreover, synods should be regional. The Latin Church is just too large to make effective use of synods for the entire Church. Also, the Russian Church makes a distinction between a synod, where only bishops have a vote, and a sobor where the laity also have a voice. Clarity is a good thing people!
No, the Latin Church is not too large to make effective use of Synods. This is something Pope Francis has been encouraging. You are right, Synods should be regional. The Roman Catholic Church (is that what you mean by the Latin Church?) is large, which just means there need to be more local (regional) Synods.
Do not trust this Pope. He talks from each side of his mouth, is a Marxist, and his only clear interest is in forming a One-World-Religion including paganism followed by its total destruction. Study his actions and words over the years. Do not be fooled.
That's all very nice to hear. I do not hate the papacy. I love some of the early Popes, Piux XII, & Benedict XVI. What Francis claims the Papacy is not is exactly what it is. The major block to unity in the West has been the Papacy. I thought we Anglicans were already at the place to which Francis wishes to lead us. He would actually be following us. I don't trust them, but they are indeed my brothers.
After a few years in the Roman Catholic Church and following a long period of discernment I was made an Orthodox catechumen this morning. Very peculiar to hear about this new document just hours later!
This seems on the face of it to be a positive step so long as future talks go deeper. It seems to me that the Great Schism was rooted in liturgical and theological divergence, so to mend subsequent divisions will require an honest attempt to understand and accommodate our differences, just as diversity of rites and theological expressions were accepted in the first millennium, and a willingness to turn our attention to the common roots of our traditions and to the fathers.
Reunion is still a way off, but thankfully we seem to have come a long way from the days of popes demanding their slippers be kissed by their fellow patriarchs!
Thank you for sharing! I think there were also political issues at the time that affected the Great Schism, it was not only about liturgical and theological developments. I agree we have come a long way, and I think we all need to keep praying for and working toward Christian unity. The Orthodox and Roman Christians could make this so much closer to reality if they could finalize some kind of reunion.
My wife and I (also raised Catholic) are contemplating the very same thing. Since the Catholic church has turned its back on the old ways, Orthodoxy seems like the only place to experience genuine Sacred Tradition.
I would definitely recommend attending some Orthodox services, meeting with a good priest, etc. For me, that experience of being envelopes in the Sacred Tradition was the key factor in my decision. In the Roman church there is traditionalism, which is a sort of modern attempt to reconstruct a tradition, but encountering the living Tradition in its fullness is quite another thing.
I don't agree that the Catholic Church has turned its back on the old ways. The Council of Trent in the 16th century affirmed centuries of tradition (the old ways) while at the same time getting rid of some unnecessary excesses that had crept into the practice of the Church. The Vatican II Council in the early 1960s did the same thing. Both the Catholic and Orthodox Christian Churches rely on Sacred Tradition and the history of the Christian Church. Neither has turned their backs on "the old ways."
Do you honestly believe that the anemic Novus Ordo mass matches the aesthetic power of the old Tridentine mass? Do you honestly believe that "Eucharistic ministers" are legit? Do you honestly believe that On Eagle's Wings is as beautiful as the Tantum Ergo?
I don't believe the Catholic Mass (i.e. celebration of the Eucharist) is anemic. I am sorry you experience it like that. Yes, I do believe the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are legit, because the Catholic Church teaches and practices that. Do you disagree with the Catholic Church on this? Why? I believe Sacred Music is importantly influenced by different ages, cultures, societies, etc. I love both On Eagle's Wings and the Tantum Ergo. The former is very difficult for the average participant in the Mass to sing, imho, but it is based on Scripture which I think is important. The Tantum Ergo is perhaps easier to sing, but I doubt many today understand it adequately. Regardless, both are part of the Christian tradition and have a place in the liturgy, depending on pastoral considerations.
So nothing that challenging then 😂? Well, if it is indeed his will and you have been chosen for the task, it’s just a matter of time. I’ll say a prayer for your cause.
As a cradle Roman Catholic, now confessional Lutheran, I am good with better relationships and respect between expressions of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Integrity, yes. Haughtiness, no thank you.
What was never "holy"? The Church? Nonsense. Jesus Christ established the Church. That does not make the Church perfect. If you disagree that the Christian Church is holy, because of Jesus Christ who established it, how do you call yourself Christian? On what basis? Thanks.
It's because I have answered you over and over. Perhaps you should try to keep the answers in mind. I can see this is a ploy you use with others you disagree with.
I think the Ordinariate is generally a good thing. The liturgy is fantastic. They produce some great resources. We have not seen many conversions in England, though. Mostly, it seems to be a few priests went over with their wives - the congregations seem to get left behind. So in this context, it does not seem to be working.
I explored it while studying in Rome and because I was Confirmed as a Roman Catholic in 1963, I am simply regarded as an apostate Roman Catholic and ineligible for the Ordinariate. Sad, but understandable. I will die a Lutheran priest with the joy of ministering over 30 years and as God grants, a few more.
Perhaps I used the word inappropriately but the personal effect of this Ordinariate excluded me because I was not coming to Rome through an Anglican or Lutheran Tradition. The fact that I was Roman Catholic during my childhood and young life simply made me ineligible for this specialized grace given to those of us who find Rome to be the “answer” to the question: who am I? I am an Evangelical Catholic, aka Lutheran. I have much love for my childhood and adolescent years as a Roman Catholic. My formation there actually makes me a better Lutheran….or so I have been told. God grant you His joy and peace.
Peter was the first small rock to be placed upon the corner stone rock who was Jesus.
The modern day pontificate can be traced all the way back to Peter which is incredible, if Peter was given the keys to loosen n bound what's in heaven, then why would that suddenly end??? Especially when Jrsus said the gates of hell Will never prevail over the church.
I think if every protestant learnt philosophy they would know better to understand the big C Catholic Church has the infallibility to interpret scripture and are the ultimate magesteriym.
The book of Acts finished in Rome with Paul in prison there, Paul n Peter clearly died there for a reason and Rome became the see of the Mother church to spread Christianits all round the world which was God's plan as part of the great commission.
"But the bishops might easily retain the lawful obedience of the people if they would not insist upon the observance of such traditions as cannot be kept with a good conscience. Now they command celibacy; they admit none unless they swear that they will not teach the pure doctrine of the Gospel. The churches do not ask that the bishops should restore concord at the expense of their honor; which, nevertheless, it would be proper for good pastors to do. They ask only that they would release unjust burdens which are new and have been received contrary to the custom of the Church Catholic."
Thank you for this helpful summary and for your initial thoughts. I look forward to reading the document in its entirety. I am certainly no fan of Pope Francis, but I think this document needs to be received and analyzed on its own internal merits (or lack thereof). There seems to be much in it that his positive. I am reminded of the 1990 statement by the USCCB on Anglican Orders, which - I think - has much in common with this study document. https://www.usccb.org/committees/ecumenical-interreligious-affairs/anglican-orders-report-evolving-context-their
Seems like the present Pope and his Vatican minions have already become closet Protestants if not openly Protestant in their pronouncements. The pope always reserves his strongest criticisms for “traditionalists” within the ranks of the RCC. This being the case, the underlying roots of this lengthy document are likely to be found in placing traditionalists under further pressure.
I suggest that this document is now released to gain the support of virtually all the failing mainstream Protestant churches (Anglicans, Methodists and Lutheran’s come to mind in that regard). This will have the immediate effect of placing traditionalists in the RCC and, let’s face it, traditionalists in all of those mainstream Protestant churches as well, under much greater pressure to either compromise Tradition and Scripture or to break away.
Doing the latter is never a realistic option, especially for traditional Catholics whether they be Roman, Orthodox, Anglican or Lutheran.
In fact the question has to be asked, where will traditional Roman Catholics go when their church becomes nothing more than a leader of a huge pan-Protestant sect?
Good stuff! For those of us in the Lutheran tradition, Rome would need to go back to The Council of Trent, which plainly rejected the basic doctrine of Augsburg. I spent the first 20 years of my ministry looking for the Bishop of Rome to become an ecumenical servant of God’s Word and would show genuine interest in reconciliation. Pope St John Paul II gave me most hope in Ut Unum Saint. Perhaps, if he had lived another decade or two…..Truth be told, most of the folks on the Confessional Lutheran side have no interest in any sort of reunion of the Church, so without the impulse on both sides we are left with the current state of affairs. As a person aside, when my father died in 2001 the parish priest of the congregation doing my father’s funeral invited me to vest and preach the sermon. I also distributed the Blood of Christ at the Eucharist. 10 years later, at the death of my younger brother my reception was much different: I could give a eulogy from a podium on the floor level of the church, or if I wanted to vest I would have to stand away from the altar so as not to cause confusion (they stated these were the Chancery rules). So as to not cause further confusion, I proclaimed the sermon I would have given during the time allotted for the “eulogy” (we don’t allow those in my tradition) wearing a black clerical collar and suit. I have given up any hope of any sort of meaningful reunion of the Church, with sadness.
If this came under a better pope, I might find it encouraging. But not only is Francis on the edge of apostasy, but he has so stacked the College of Cardinals that I do not expect to see a genuinely orthodox pope in my lifetime.
And remember Francis is a Peronist. What he says often depends on his audience.
True.
by peronist do you mean humanist?
Not on the edge of Apostasy...IS APOTATE to place the Demon Pachamama Earth Goddess Idol on the Alter and has supported and behaved of heresy in his time in The Vatican with all The Bible defines abomination. Priests and Bishops removed from their positions due to sexual debauchery and pedophilia, after having spread their evil or perpetrating Financial Scandal being returned to the Heirarchy of Power in The Vatican is unthinkable. All is PROOF of those viewing The Roman Catholic Church evil to be correct even if they weren't before.
WILL NEVER VIEW BERGOGLIO AS ANY POPE IN HIS ALLEGIANCE TO HELL WITH THE BLACK NOBILITY DEMONS FROM THE CITY OF LONDON NOW IN THE VATICAN CREATING THEIR PAGAN CHRISLAM; their New/One World Religion.
Will continue with worship as always before with The Holy Bible and our Triune God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Amen.
What do you mean by APOTATE? What do you mean by the Demon Pachamama Earth Goddess on the Alter (do you mean Altar?)? None of those are in the Bible. What do you mean by the black nobility demons from the city of London? Again, not in the Bible. What do you mean by "CHRISLAM"? Your post is confusing and hard to read. Please clarify. Thank you.
Chrislam is NOT my word or definition...It's the City of London's plan for their 'One World Religion' based in both Christianity and Islam together. The word is not 'Apotate'; it's 'ApoState' which is a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle.
By placing a Native Idol named Pachamama Fertility Goddess on the Alter in St. Peter's Basilica; he placed a FOREIGN GOD on the alter to worship and there are several Idols also reported to be buried in the Gardens.
I have NOT avoided you or your comments/responses. People do have a real life and this is a busy time for our business in the Farm Co-op. We're beginning the harvest while also continuing to plant and weed...Process the harvest and sell to consumers in our area. Beyond the animals and family, there's little time to keep up with Email or any Social Media. It's NOT a priority.
If you need answers...They're here to be read. Yes, I do read The Bible and have loads of Education with Christianity as well as other religions of the world. Your opinon of my Faith doesn't concern me in any way...As God's opinion is the only one mattering.
Beyond The Bible; there's now loads of information in Alternative Media pertaining to this current darkness now threatening Earth and all organic life. Nobody having any wisdom would not seek information about the reality of existence on Earth at this time. This time was prophesized in The Bible; however the general details were not painted clearly and there are ways to battle this evil as God does expect us to help ourselves; to step out in faith to do what we can and he'll take the reigns to win the day.
In any way...Nothing but love Greg Doyle and positive regard for all. God Bless and Keep You.
I too read the old and new testaments with an interlinear bible and a concordance. Not trying to convert anyone, but if you'd like to discuss the Triune god concept without rancor and gotchas, I will be happy to give biblical proofs for my beliefs.
Don't need to know your beliefs. Your beliefs have nothing to do with history...It's already done and can't be changed. Your responses in future events are yet to be determined and your Faith in whatever may or may not result from that...It's up to you.
disagree about beliefs and history. The bible is a history book. We know a part of truth through human history. But if you're on your own path, may you find the father and the son.
If the Bible is a history book, what human was alive to observe and recount this history, especially the history of creation?
If the Bible is a history book, as you seem to claim did the great flood last for 40 days and nights, or for longer? Read Genesis chapters 7-8.
The Bible is not a history book in the way that most people would understand a history book. It is an historical document of God interacting with the people, through revelation, to give a salvation history. If the Bible was simply a history book, as you seem to claim, were humans created first or last by God? It must be one or the other, read the first few chapters of Genesis,
Nothing about your Faith can ever change past history as it's already been. Already do have faith and it's been a blessing for a whole lifetime. Not only do we have the Father and the Son....There's also the Holy Spirit which lives within us. It sounds as though you have the Holy Spirit and that's all that matters.
What's the black nobility demons from the city of London creating pagan chrislam?
Chrislam is a union of Christianity and Islam...
TOTALLY BOGUS.
Your term "Chrislam" is totally bogus. Where did you come up with that? Not from the Bible.
The VENETIAN Black Nobility (Black was assigned to their identity as a symbol of the evil they've perpetrated to steal power and feed unending greed at the cost of anybody and everybody). They are the descendants of the Babylonians and survivors of the fall of Rome. Consist of the Banking Houses, Monarchical Houses of Europe and Saudi Arabia, Corporatists originating in more recent times in The British East India Trading Company which was once 'Dutch'. The British Commonwealth was to legitimize the criminal British East India Trading Company...The actual owner of the Opium Trade to this day and the group now owning the Cocaine Trade in the Western Hemisphere since El Chapo was removed as the Boss. This is the group BUILDING BACK BETTER Infrastructure to enslave people and to facilitate transport of both illicit and legal product; slaves, drugs, weapons, rare foods, art, jewels, precious metals, etc.
These groups are today located in The City of London within Greater London and are now Internationally organized out of Switzerland since WWII with the Bankers, The Crown Corporation made up with the Monarchs and Peer Fabianists out of Oxford/Cambridge, and Multi-National Corporations around the world.
They manage and run the world, are the DEATH CULT as an International Mafia. THIS IS THE SHADOW GOVT. OF THE WORLD INCLUDING THE U.S. They hid behind the people of The British Isles for 800 years and now they hide behind the U.S. primarily as their MAFIA ENFORCER as well as the Nations they define, 'The Five Eyes' which is Canada, Australia, New Zealand besides the U.S. and Britain. Part of the Network is also Israel...But, they use it for their purposes as INFRASTRUCTURE TO MOVE PRODUCT INTO EUROPE FROM ASIA AND FOR ESPIONAGE.
They're demonic, rapists, murderers, torturers...While claiming to be Jewish, Christain, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or any world religion. They have no loyalty to any religion or ethnic group or nation; merely greed and Absolute Power are their interests. TOTAL POWER AND CONTROL. They seek to steal God's creation inclusive of humanity.
And the Most High must be allowing it to come to fruition for a reason. I think our father is going to spank the hell out of the world. Matthew 24:21
Agree...And, the United States more than any other Nation. It was consecrated to doing the work of Jesus Christ at its inception; the only nation of the world to be so by human choice as Israel was a command from God before humans followed through.
U.S has been more blessed than any other on Earth and has fallen away from God with its leadership being of Hell by the FREE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. This Nation's people most certainly are going to pay a high cost.
Sorry, no. The United States was not consecrated to doing the work of Jesus Christ at its inception. Any facts to support your claim? If the United States was indeed consecrated to doing the work of Jesus Christ at its inception, why was slavery allowed?
Righto. The line of our "princes" chose it. And our people have agreed since our inception. We have risen to great heights and it's over.
Sounds like you are living in your own spiritual world, apart from the Christian or any other religious tradition. Likewise, apart from any reliance on sacred texts like the Bible or the Koran. Best wishes to you.
what's the demon pachamama earth goddess idol?
Anyway, I see Francis as demented. He accepts and espouses abomination: same sex "unions", pedophilia, one world government. He supports climate change directives without noticing how much this may hurt people who aren't extremely wealthy.
I wish he were off the world stage. (This doesn't mean I'm hoping he dies.)
Pope Francis does not accept pedophilia. You are completely wrong to suggest such nonsense.
Pope Francis is not demented. Just because you disagree with some of his statements does not make him demented. Similarly, the fact that you disagree with some of his statements does not make you demented.
Pachamama can be found Online in Wikipedia...It's a Native American Fertility Goddess; The Earth Mother Goddess of Fertility commanding 'Human Sacrifice' with her consorts among the men as Chiefs/Witch Doctors of Tribes. She is to be buried to promote fertility in the Earth or for conception of children.
Bergoglio placed it on the alter in St. Peter's Basilica as though to worship it. It was taken from the alter and thrown into the Tiber River. Bergoglio was exceedingly angry. It's reported he also is especially connected to a church in Rome associated with Witchcraft in the past including Satanic/Luciferian Ceremonies.
I've looked at the statue of the fertility goddess. I've read that the pope put some in the vatican gardens and blessed them.
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm not catholic, but I do know this is an especially weird twist to the pope. He just seems to get more demented and evil, but maybe it's just being exposed.
Take care, Blaze. This poison can really drive us crazy, too.
I don't like him either, but is there proof of Francis connection to this statue and that he put on the alter?
altar. Not alter. Please use correct terms.
Yes, he is from Argentina where this Idol has long been worshiped...And, his current affiliation and connection to a church in Rome desecrated with Witchcraft and The Earth Mother Goddess while presenting itself associated with the Virgin Mary as reported in 'Church Militant years ago is verified true.
Thank you for answering and being polite. Not in agreement about the mother of Messiah as espoused by the nominal christian churches. I don't worship or "venerate" her. Peace.
On what basis are you judging the Pope? Are you Catholic? What apostasy do you believe he might be guilty of? On what basis do you as an individual determine who is or is not an orthodox Pope? Thank you.
> "More synodality."
I tend to agree with you that this will legitimatize the progressive capture of the already existing synods and conferences of bishops. As things stand today, Rome is thoroughly captured by modernism — a vigorous traditionalist movement notwithstanding (and this is the very group who will reject Francis's overtures).
It’s not just modernism, it a propensity for embracing doublethink and doublespeak, or calling Christians to ignore the contradictions hitting us in the face like a sledgehammer. As an inheritor of the truest Old Catholic legacy of the Scranton communion , Fr Robinson, by definition, SHOULD be calling for Rome to throw out their false contradictory dogmas of Vaticans 1&2, which, by virtue of their manifest contradictions, mutually destroy one another with their ridiculously impossible incompatibilities. “God is not the author of confusion”, therefore God is NOT the author of these schemas, whatever else is.
Ecumenism that demands we ignore incoherent nonsense is prelest of the worst kind!
Do you have any specific examples of false contradictory dogmas of Vatican I and II? Would you agree that the Church, like all of us, are on a journey during our lifetimes and are always working toward a better understanding of the mystery of God and the best way to try to express that mystery in language?
Moreover, synods should be regional. The Latin Church is just too large to make effective use of synods for the entire Church. Also, the Russian Church makes a distinction between a synod, where only bishops have a vote, and a sobor where the laity also have a voice. Clarity is a good thing people!
No, the Latin Church is not too large to make effective use of Synods. This is something Pope Francis has been encouraging. You are right, Synods should be regional. The Roman Catholic Church (is that what you mean by the Latin Church?) is large, which just means there need to be more local (regional) Synods.
Do not trust this Pope. He talks from each side of his mouth, is a Marxist, and his only clear interest is in forming a One-World-Religion including paganism followed by its total destruction. Study his actions and words over the years. Do not be fooled.
Nonsense. Any facts to support your outrageous claims?
I assume you are joking or are you a Tablet reader.
I agree
tablet reader? I really don't know.
I think he is referring to the publication The Tablet. https://www.thetablet.co.uk/
That's all very nice to hear. I do not hate the papacy. I love some of the early Popes, Piux XII, & Benedict XVI. What Francis claims the Papacy is not is exactly what it is. The major block to unity in the West has been the Papacy. I thought we Anglicans were already at the place to which Francis wishes to lead us. He would actually be following us. I don't trust them, but they are indeed my brothers.
After a few years in the Roman Catholic Church and following a long period of discernment I was made an Orthodox catechumen this morning. Very peculiar to hear about this new document just hours later!
This seems on the face of it to be a positive step so long as future talks go deeper. It seems to me that the Great Schism was rooted in liturgical and theological divergence, so to mend subsequent divisions will require an honest attempt to understand and accommodate our differences, just as diversity of rites and theological expressions were accepted in the first millennium, and a willingness to turn our attention to the common roots of our traditions and to the fathers.
Reunion is still a way off, but thankfully we seem to have come a long way from the days of popes demanding their slippers be kissed by their fellow patriarchs!
Thank you for sharing! I think there were also political issues at the time that affected the Great Schism, it was not only about liturgical and theological developments. I agree we have come a long way, and I think we all need to keep praying for and working toward Christian unity. The Orthodox and Roman Christians could make this so much closer to reality if they could finalize some kind of reunion.
My wife and I (also raised Catholic) are contemplating the very same thing. Since the Catholic church has turned its back on the old ways, Orthodoxy seems like the only place to experience genuine Sacred Tradition.
I would definitely recommend attending some Orthodox services, meeting with a good priest, etc. For me, that experience of being envelopes in the Sacred Tradition was the key factor in my decision. In the Roman church there is traditionalism, which is a sort of modern attempt to reconstruct a tradition, but encountering the living Tradition in its fullness is quite another thing.
I wish you and your wife all the best!
I don't agree that the Catholic Church has turned its back on the old ways. The Council of Trent in the 16th century affirmed centuries of tradition (the old ways) while at the same time getting rid of some unnecessary excesses that had crept into the practice of the Church. The Vatican II Council in the early 1960s did the same thing. Both the Catholic and Orthodox Christian Churches rely on Sacred Tradition and the history of the Christian Church. Neither has turned their backs on "the old ways."
Do you honestly believe that the anemic Novus Ordo mass matches the aesthetic power of the old Tridentine mass? Do you honestly believe that "Eucharistic ministers" are legit? Do you honestly believe that On Eagle's Wings is as beautiful as the Tantum Ergo?
I don't believe the Catholic Mass (i.e. celebration of the Eucharist) is anemic. I am sorry you experience it like that. Yes, I do believe the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are legit, because the Catholic Church teaches and practices that. Do you disagree with the Catholic Church on this? Why? I believe Sacred Music is importantly influenced by different ages, cultures, societies, etc. I love both On Eagle's Wings and the Tantum Ergo. The former is very difficult for the average participant in the Mass to sing, imho, but it is based on Scripture which I think is important. The Tantum Ergo is perhaps easier to sing, but I doubt many today understand it adequately. Regardless, both are part of the Christian tradition and have a place in the liturgy, depending on pastoral considerations.
Excellent article! Thank you so much.
You are most welcome, sir.
I’m still not a hundred percent sure where you’re going with all this but I’m fascinated to find out.
Unity.
One holy catholic and apostolic church.
So nothing that challenging then 😂? Well, if it is indeed his will and you have been chosen for the task, it’s just a matter of time. I’ll say a prayer for your cause.
As a cradle Roman Catholic, now confessional Lutheran, I am good with better relationships and respect between expressions of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Integrity, yes. Haughtiness, no thank you.
It was never 'holy." And the apostles would be appalled. The history of this church is terrible.
What was never "holy"? The Church? Nonsense. Jesus Christ established the Church. That does not make the Church perfect. If you disagree that the Christian Church is holy, because of Jesus Christ who established it, how do you call yourself Christian? On what basis? Thanks.
It never matters what proofs you are given. You don't use scriptures, you veer off topic, and you interject your silly gotchas.
These questions have been answered. You probably have forgotten or never read the answers. In any case, it's obvious you don't retain the information.
And that response completely ignores my question. Thank you.
It's because I have answered you over and over. Perhaps you should try to keep the answers in mind. I can see this is a ploy you use with others you disagree with.
The hair of the dog in other words.
“a renewed understanding and exercise of papal primacy can contribute to the restoration of Christian unity.”
What is your opinion of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter as it relates to all this?
I think the Ordinariate is generally a good thing. The liturgy is fantastic. They produce some great resources. We have not seen many conversions in England, though. Mostly, it seems to be a few priests went over with their wives - the congregations seem to get left behind. So in this context, it does not seem to be working.
I explored it while studying in Rome and because I was Confirmed as a Roman Catholic in 1963, I am simply regarded as an apostate Roman Catholic and ineligible for the Ordinariate. Sad, but understandable. I will die a Lutheran priest with the joy of ministering over 30 years and as God grants, a few more.
Perhaps I used the word inappropriately but the personal effect of this Ordinariate excluded me because I was not coming to Rome through an Anglican or Lutheran Tradition. The fact that I was Roman Catholic during my childhood and young life simply made me ineligible for this specialized grace given to those of us who find Rome to be the “answer” to the question: who am I? I am an Evangelical Catholic, aka Lutheran. I have much love for my childhood and adolescent years as a Roman Catholic. My formation there actually makes me a better Lutheran….or so I have been told. God grant you His joy and peace.
Being confirmed as a Roman Catholic in 1963 does not make you an apostate.
Peter was the first small rock to be placed upon the corner stone rock who was Jesus.
The modern day pontificate can be traced all the way back to Peter which is incredible, if Peter was given the keys to loosen n bound what's in heaven, then why would that suddenly end??? Especially when Jrsus said the gates of hell Will never prevail over the church.
I think if every protestant learnt philosophy they would know better to understand the big C Catholic Church has the infallibility to interpret scripture and are the ultimate magesteriym.
The book of Acts finished in Rome with Paul in prison there, Paul n Peter clearly died there for a reason and Rome became the see of the Mother church to spread Christianits all round the world which was God's plan as part of the great commission.
The Augsburg Confession
Article XXVIII Of Ecclesiastical Power.
"But the bishops might easily retain the lawful obedience of the people if they would not insist upon the observance of such traditions as cannot be kept with a good conscience. Now they command celibacy; they admit none unless they swear that they will not teach the pure doctrine of the Gospel. The churches do not ask that the bishops should restore concord at the expense of their honor; which, nevertheless, it would be proper for good pastors to do. They ask only that they would release unjust burdens which are new and have been received contrary to the custom of the Church Catholic."
I wonder what he’s up to now 🤔 I don’t trust him
Thank you for this helpful summary and for your initial thoughts. I look forward to reading the document in its entirety. I am certainly no fan of Pope Francis, but I think this document needs to be received and analyzed on its own internal merits (or lack thereof). There seems to be much in it that his positive. I am reminded of the 1990 statement by the USCCB on Anglican Orders, which - I think - has much in common with this study document. https://www.usccb.org/committees/ecumenical-interreligious-affairs/anglican-orders-report-evolving-context-their
Seems like the present Pope and his Vatican minions have already become closet Protestants if not openly Protestant in their pronouncements. The pope always reserves his strongest criticisms for “traditionalists” within the ranks of the RCC. This being the case, the underlying roots of this lengthy document are likely to be found in placing traditionalists under further pressure.
I suggest that this document is now released to gain the support of virtually all the failing mainstream Protestant churches (Anglicans, Methodists and Lutheran’s come to mind in that regard). This will have the immediate effect of placing traditionalists in the RCC and, let’s face it, traditionalists in all of those mainstream Protestant churches as well, under much greater pressure to either compromise Tradition and Scripture or to break away.
Doing the latter is never a realistic option, especially for traditional Catholics whether they be Roman, Orthodox, Anglican or Lutheran.
In fact the question has to be asked, where will traditional Roman Catholics go when their church becomes nothing more than a leader of a huge pan-Protestant sect?
Fr Robinson, do you have a link to the study document?
Sorry, I should have included it in the article: http://www.christianunity.va/content/dam/unitacristiani/Collezione_Ut_unum_sint/The_Bishop_of_Rome/The%20Bishop%20of%20Rome.pdf
For those interested, please also read Pope John Paul II's encyclical Ut Unum Sint. https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint.html
One of my favorites!
Good stuff! For those of us in the Lutheran tradition, Rome would need to go back to The Council of Trent, which plainly rejected the basic doctrine of Augsburg. I spent the first 20 years of my ministry looking for the Bishop of Rome to become an ecumenical servant of God’s Word and would show genuine interest in reconciliation. Pope St John Paul II gave me most hope in Ut Unum Saint. Perhaps, if he had lived another decade or two…..Truth be told, most of the folks on the Confessional Lutheran side have no interest in any sort of reunion of the Church, so without the impulse on both sides we are left with the current state of affairs. As a person aside, when my father died in 2001 the parish priest of the congregation doing my father’s funeral invited me to vest and preach the sermon. I also distributed the Blood of Christ at the Eucharist. 10 years later, at the death of my younger brother my reception was much different: I could give a eulogy from a podium on the floor level of the church, or if I wanted to vest I would have to stand away from the altar so as not to cause confusion (they stated these were the Chancery rules). So as to not cause further confusion, I proclaimed the sermon I would have given during the time allotted for the “eulogy” (we don’t allow those in my tradition) wearing a black clerical collar and suit. I have given up any hope of any sort of meaningful reunion of the Church, with sadness.