I am someone who grew up in an American Protestant church and lost my way. I have nothing against my former church, but I am seeking a deeper, more liturgical form of Christianity found in Catholicism. Just reading your explanation of the rosary confirms my need of a grounded, more structured worship of Our Lord. Were I to become a Catholic convert, where would I begin? Am I too old? Thanks. I became familiar with you from the Megyn Kelly Show.
Hi Joel, I was confirmed into the Catholic Church in 2018 and didn't become a "real Catholic" until November 2020, at the age of 55. I'm so happy and feel so blessed to be part of the Church. Come home; you won't regret it.
Hi Joel, I was a convert from Protestantism 30 years ago. Just go along to your local Catholic Church! You can attend Mass. Say hello to the priest, explain what you're looking for, and he will help you along the way. There are also lots of Catholic channels on YouTube, plus podcasts for and by Catholics, so you can have a look at all sorts of stuff at home in private. Follow where the Holy Spirit is leading you. I have found wonderful spiritual experiences in the Catholic Church, and have never looked back. All the best! 🙏
Met my husband by praying the rosary. We met on AveMariaSingles. Then realized we grew up a few minutes away from each other. Twelve years later, 2 kids, countless challenges and we are stronger than ever.
Since teaching my boys to pray the rosary (we are in RCIA now), they both are sleeping better.
I haven't noticed any specific changes in my own walk with the traditional rosary, but I have been using my one decade rosary to pray small prayers of thanks (I pray the traditional opening, then give thanks for one thing/bead in the decade, and finish up with the traditional closing prayers), and it has brought me so much contentment and peace!
Excellent biblical response. I quit reading when he called Mary the Mother of God. He has already said she was the temple of God - I am guessing her womb??
And to think that “ .... God gave the church to Mary” is outlandish.
Very telling that you stopped reading. You dislike truth.
This matter was settled at the ecumenical councils. Mary is the Theotokos. If you deny that, you deny His divinity. If you deny that, you are no Christian.
And you have the gall to come here and use the word heretic. You are one. Repent.
I had already read several untruths which I pointed out.
Jesus divinity is based on Mary being a virgin. She was Jesus physical Mother, not the Fathers. My belief in the Trinity is intact. You making Mary the mother of God is making the Trinity the quadinity.
If you write about your beliefs based on councils of men and not the bible, then you are trusting in men and not God alone.
I am a former Protestant & Charismatic who made a commitment to Jesus as a teenager in 1974 - I converted to Catholicism in 1995. It was like "coming home" So many things made sense to me at last!
Mary is very real to me now too and she is my Mother too! And I meet Jesus in his totality in the Bread and Wine every Mass. What joy!
Daily Rosary is now normal for me and I have experienced great grace and spritiual power through it.
I can thoroughly recommend the writings and videos of Dr Brant Pitre, who explains so well the traditional church teachings by using scripture to show us where they came from.
It’s another form of dogma where from a very young age, Protestants are taught that Catholicism and praying to anyone other than God is considered paganism.
One of the reasons I left the Church many decades ago was because my youth pastor said that my best friend who is Catholic was going to Hell. I thought that was pretty presumptuous, judgmental, and above her pay grade. None of us know the path that God has for others. Plus, saying that someone else who believed in Christ was going to Hell was so bizarre to me that I just was so confused by it.
Even though I have many Protestant anti-Catholic dogmatic views, I fight against them today. I recently came to the conclusion that motherhood is a mess in Western society because people don’t look to Mother Mary as the ideal mother. Mothers in the West are lost.
I don’t know if I’m ready to pray to Mary yet but I wouldn’t rag on others for doing it. As long as we believe in Jesus, aren’t we on the same team???
More of the centuries long battle between Protestants and Catholics poking its head out. It’s crazy how long that stuff lasts without us understanding where it comes from.
My youth pastor…her pay grade. Well that was part of your problem right there. Any church that had a female pastor is in no place to judge the theology of others.
I’m not Catholic so I don’t care what heresy Catholics pursue, having said that Catholics do not use the title Pastor, they instead use the title Priest or Father. I’m fairly certain that the Catholic Church has rules against female priests. Or perhaps it does not but in more than 2000 years just hasn’t found a woman qualified for the job. The fact that women are not to serve as priests or pastors (the Protestant equivalent) is something that is consistent across the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, and Protestant churches of any level of orthodoxy. Both the Holy Scripture and tradition are united in the stance that the position of priest/pastor is to be held only by men.
By heresy I mean false doctrine and false gospel. Heresies; the role of the pope, the role of Mary, the role of the sacraments, indulgences, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the veneration of saints and icons and relics, the rather Catholic habit of killing people only to later name them saints, purgatory, the role of priests in confession, transubstantiation, the immaculate conception, mandatory celibacy of the priesthood, what is required for salvation…
There’s also the unfortunate reality that so few popes have had the character one would expect of someone who was the rightful successor of Peter. Not only the blatantly evil popes of the distant past but the more banal evil of the behavior of the pope during the Nazi and subsequently the Soviet era as well as the permissive evil of the current Pope. Then there’s the institutional cover up of the sexual abuse of both boys and girls that went on for decades. The Catholic run Indian Schools of Canada and the U.S. as well as boarding schools and orphanages elsewhere do not speak well of the Catholic Church as the Bride of Christ either although those things aren’t heresy so much as blatant and not particularly repentant sin.
i agree with all that you are saying but it's no use to say these things for when you are in a religion you are blind to a lot of things and the scriptures are completely taken out of context and interpreted to their agenda
Name one false doctrine you think the Catholic Church has. Name one false gospel. The Pope is the successor of St. Peter. Do you deny St. Peter had successors? What role do you think Mary (the Mother of God) has in the Catholic Church? Why should Christians not pray to saints? Why do you think sin is only an offense against God and not an offense against the Church and all Christians? Celibacy is not a requirement for all priestly ordinations.
The issue of women being ordained to the priesthood is controversial. Some Christian communities allow it, others don't. What is your point, and what does it have to do with the original post?
The Father has the final say. Not some church or christian community. This just shows how far from the truth so much of the world is. Makes sense though, as Satan is the ruler of this world.
Wrong. Both Catholic and Orthodox Christian Churches do not ordain women to the priesthood. There are probably some other Christian denominations that also do not. So are you dismissing the theology and tradition of all Catholic and Orthodox Christians?
Catholics routinely use the title "Pastor" to refer to the priest who is in charge of a parish. Try again, what is your problem with how Catholics use the term "pastor"?
It’s my understanding that pastor in the Catholic usage is a colloquial term and that it is not used as an official title “Youth Pastor” is an official title and one I have never seen in any Catholic hierarchy anywhere. So I assume you have a lengthy list of female priests/pastors then? No you don’t. The Catholic equivalent is a Youth Minister, which is different than a Protestant Youth Pastor. Again I leave the Catholics to the heresies of their choosing but any Protestant church with a female Youth Pastor is in serious error and frankly cannot and should not be taken seriously.
Why do you say Youth Pastor is an official title? That may be true for your denomination but it is not true for Catholic Christians. Is it in the Bible?
No problem if your denomination uses Pastor in a different way than Catholics do. I am just sharing what it means to Catholics. Catholics have one Pastor in a parish.
As I said, Catholics routinely use the title Pastor to refer to the priest in charge of a given parish. Is that hard to understand? If you accuse Catholics of being in heresy please let us know why, and let us know how you define heresy. Thank you.
Then all the biblical forefathers, the Messiah and the Most High El are sexist? I don't want to use your phrases to chastise you, but you don't seem qualified to chastise anyone. ("try again", "shame on you", etc. etc. etc.?)
Greg, why don't you know this? Messiah means anointed one. In your posts you seem to see yourself as qualified to instruct others. Your questions mean you have a lot of study to do.
Yes Messiah means Anointed One. At least you got that right. Why do you claim the Messiah is sexist? Do you understand that Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah? Why do you keep bringing up Most High El? Do you know any Christians who pray to the Most High El? Do you have some private understanding of God that causes you to use Most High El in contradiction to the Christian tradition??
You don't need to pray to Mary to be Catholic. Catholics pray to all saints, Mary most importantly, but that is different from worshipping Mary as if she was God. Catholics only worship the Triune God.
Father Robinson, thank you for this informative post. I have recently become Anglican and pray the Daily Office twice a day. I have never prayed the Rosary before, not out of opposition but more so not knowing how or fully understanding it. Do you have a recommendation on how to incorporate the Rosary into the Daily Office?
Thank you for your wonderful clarity! Do let us all know when you've discerned a way to incorporate the two - I think a lot of us will love that dearly ♥️!
My son Aidan (you met him in Orlando last October) has incorporated a recitation of the rosary prayer and the "Hail Holy Queen" after the daily office and then he also includes a prayer to St Michael at the end. I don't have the St Michael prayer memorized as he does, but I join him in the rosary prayers when we pray vespers together.
Great to hear! The rosary and the Daily Office (aka the Liturgy of the Hours, or the Divine Office) are Christian. They both existed before the unfortunate Christian divisions that happened in the 16th century. Let's focus on what unites Christians.
Praying the rosary is a Christian tradition that existed long before the Protestant Reformation. The rosary is available to all Christians. No apologies needed.
How could praying ever be wrong? One Bible verse that emphasizes the importance of prayer is 1 Thessalonians 5:17, which states, "Pray without ceasing." This verse suggests that prayer is always appropriate and encouraged.
Thank you for this email, Father. It is truly an answer to prayer. I recently began worshipping with a congregation belonging to the Anglican Network in Canada and have also begun praying the rosary. I have been praying for a greater understanding of it and a greater understanding of the role of Mary in the Church, and what you have written here helps immensely. May God bless you in your witness. Derek Frew. Vancouver, BC
I so admire and appreciate your clear, logical thought. I was raised in the Methodist church (former PK here), and have been Catholic for 12 years, and found everything you wrote to be accurate and truthful. I pray the Rosary every day and find it to be an excellent way to focus my mind and heart on Christ. Who can imagine themselves watching the scouring of Christ, seeing his flesh torn down to the bone over and over again, while his mother watches, and not be moved to tears? These mental exercises bring us closer to Christ and opens our hearts to the Truth of the Eucharist.
Thank you so much for this most timely post. I was raised aggressively Anti-Mary but since being confirmed in the ACNA have felt such a pull toward Our Lady. My parish is very Anglo-Catholic and my past upbringing still makes me have doubt but the Holy Spirit pulls me even more aggressively toward Mary. I find so much comfort in the Rosary. I cannot explain it. Your post came right as I was discerning a Marian consecration that my soul pulls me to but my past experience leads me away from. Thank you 🙏🏼
Caitlin, you might find encouragement and solace in the Marian 9 month novena by Cardinal Burke. It's already started, but you can jump right in. The site explains the reason for this particular novena and includes a consecration to Mary at the end of the 9 months (optional). God bless!
Thank you for the post Father. I recently read a sarcastic comment somewhere that if the Angel Gabriel says it, then it's scripture, but if we recite the Ave, it's vain repetition. Such logic can only come from not understanding and not wanting to understand.
Thank you so much Father Robinson for your thoughtful explanation of The Rosary . Excellent!!I will be forwarding it to anyone I know who is confused about the Rosary . Have a wonderful pilgrimage .Please pray for us here in America .That America and the world will turn back to God .May God Bless you Father. You are a true light in a dark world ,
Great explanation, Father. I’m a cradle Catholic that left the church a while ago for a few years but have been back for about 20 years. I have many devout Protestant friends who object to Mariology and ask about “praying to Mary” (a “dead spirit”). 🤔 I have always found the explanation of the “Communion of saints” helpful. This is the idea that there are saints in three different arenas - the souls in Purgatory (Church Suffering), those on earth (Church Militant), and those in heaven (Church Triumphant). All are available to be asked to pray for us as intercessors, that they are simply spiritual “friends” that are no longer on earth, but alive in heaven. As I am able to ask an earthly friend to pray for me, so also I can ask the same of any member of the Communion of saints. This may be too much for Protestants to accept, but nonetheless may be helpful to more open minded ones.
Yes, at least from the Catholic Christian tradition, you can always ask (pray to) saints for their help and intercession. Praying to saints (or praying to our dear departed loved ones) is not idolatrous and is not worship. This is why Mary is so important to Catholic Christians. Pray in the way you see fit, according to the Christian Church you attend.
Quote: "All are available to be asked to pray for us as intercessors, that they are simply spiritual friends that are no longer on earth but in heaven."
You just need to very careful you don't pray to the wrong "spiritual friends" in heaven.
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places
"wrong spiritual friends in heaven" makes me laugh. If we truly have spiritual friends in heaven, how could they be wrong? If we can't have spiritual friends in heaven, why do you bother trying to unsuccessfully refute that possibility?
I love reading your posts. You make me want to convert to Catholicism every time I listen/hear you speak.
To ask a question as a convinced Protestant, in praying to the depart saints, what grounds to we have to assert that they now possess a level of omniscience that would be necessary to hear our prayers?
Follow-up: Given that Sacred Scripture is the only thing we possess that is God-breathed and possessing God's authority, does it not follow that Scripture is necessarily superior to oral Tradition?
Where does the Bible come from? Who edited its books? Who decided which were canonical and which were apocryphal? Who articulated the idea of the divinely inspired and inerrant Word of God in the first place? All of these concepts come from Sacred Tradition.
Extra scriptural tradition is found even in Scripture itself. John’s gospel and the letters of Paul quote ancient hymns circulating in the early Christian community before the New Testament was even written.
Most importantly of all, Scripture plainly states that it is limited in John 21:25.
Thanks for the comment. Let me try and give some responses.
-Scripture primarily comes from God, via the Holy Spirit's inspiration of key men. Those men wrote/edited the books we now have.
-The believers passively received the books we now possess over time. If you are talking about the need for a Magisterial ruling, then the Church did not possess a Canon until 1546 when it was finally and infallibly defined. We can't use lesser counsels here, since those aren't allowed when Protestants try and use them.
-Scripture itself claims to be divine. I didn't really understand the concept of this coming from "outside of Scripture."
-Scripture's being "limited" or using popular imagery from other sources does not negate the fact that those items are preserved in the only collection of writings we possess that is God-breathed. Unless we have another source of this, it is by definition superior to anything else.
Scripture itself claims to be divine. I didn't really understand the concept of this coming from "outside of Scripture."
This is circular logic. Scripture is divine because Scripture says it is divine. How do we know that scripture is not lying? Because it's divine!
We need some outside source to break this vicious cycle. Scripture itself *tells you* that it does not contain everything there is to know about Jesus. Therefore, we must supplement it. Scripture is not *wrong*, but it is not the complete picture. This is my main point.
I'll go for a sub-point first. I don't see anywhere that Scripture tells us that "everything we need to know about Jesus" is not inside of its pages. It clearly tells us that there is more we could know: John, for example, was not exhaustive, but it does not follow from that that we needed to know all of those things.
There's a deeper issue here that comes up often. I'll do my best to unpack it. When we talk about breaking cycles by appealing to something else, that isn't helping our apparent problem. Whatever authority we have brought it must itself be validated, which, by the set standard, requires bringing in yet another source of authentication.
Now we are in the vicious conundrum of an infinite regression of authorities. We really only have two choices. We must (a) end up knowing everything in the universe to escape the infinite regression or (b) have a self-authenticating standard. No system of thought or belief can escape this. For Protestants, based on Scripture's testimony of being the Words of God, it is the highest authority and thus carries with it the grounds of its own evidence.
This goes farther than "Scripture is the Word of God because it says so." The late Greg Bahnsen did a marvelous job showing how Scripture provides in its pages the necessary foundations for all logical thought and existence, or the "preconditions of intelligibility." I think that's a bit much to go into here, plus most of his lectures are free on YouTube!
I completely agree that we need a way to break epistemic circularity. But I don't think that the Bible is the way out. Believing in the Bible means believing that the men who wrote it were divinely inspired and that it was divinely preserved throughout the ages. I think we should follow Euclid and make our postulates as small and self-evident as possible. We can't prove divine inspiration from first principles.
In your very first comment you said --
Given that Sacred Scripture is the only thing we possess that is God-breathed and possessing God's authority...
My goal was with this exchange was simply to show that this is not the case. We can and indeed *must* look in other places for foundations. The Bible itself says as much. Sola Scriptura is logically untenable.
But this comment thread is getting unwieldy. If you like, we can continue this discussion via email. Feel free to drop me a line at mxcollins@gmail.com. These things are important to talk about.
There are outside sources to see that the bible is accurate in history (although, you will find many scholars who don't agree).
Historically, I don't think many disagree about the Messiah's birth and death. Historically, I don't think many disagree that King David and King Solomon existed. Or Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The scriptures have been tampered with ("the lying pen of the scribes") There are many versions and scholars who are comparing them, trying to get to the truth of what is written.
Messiah's followers testify that he was resurrected and they gave their lives to bring this truth to us. They existed, they died horrible deaths. All we have is testimony and our own personal perusal of the world to see if much in scriptures are true.
Any way, I do know it's difficult and if you're sincere, I wish you a good journey.
Yes, Catholics believe the Bible is inspired. To be precise, Catholics do not "believe" (trust their faith to) the Bible. What Christians truly believe is articulated in the Christian Creeds (e.g. the Nicene Creed, the Apostles Creed, etc.). Christianity is not based on faith in a book, it is based on faith in God, most importantly as revealed through Jesus Christ. The Bible is an essential and constitutive element of the Catholic Church, no teaching of the Catholic Church can contradict the Bible (properly interpreted).
No, the Church had a canon long before the Council of Trent in 1546. The fact that the canon was not confirmed by an ecumenical council before then did not mean the canon did not exist.
Christians have Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is "God-breathed" and possesses God's authority. Jesus Christ predated the New Testament. Do you believe in God (Jesus Christ) or a book?
Yes. I know the messiah and the father through the old and new testaments. Since the original apostles and disciples are now in the grave I don't converse with them orally.
The original Apostles and disciples did not know Jesus through the Old or New Testaments. The original Apostles and disciples knew Jesus in person. The New Testament did not exist until the original Apostles and their followers wrote it. Knowing the Scripture does not necessarily lead you to knowing God. Knowing God (Jesus Christ) is what helps you to properly understand Scripture. Just like the original Apostles and disciples.
no argument that the apostles and disciples knew the messiah personally. I've already said that.
As I said, anyone living today will only know the father, his son, and the father's plan for our salvation through the scriptures. We aren't the apostles or the disciples.
No. Scripture is as much a part of Tradition as the oral Tradition you cite. The Church existed before the Scriptures,, both for Jewish and Christian believers. Right?
Let me know in the comments how the rosary changed your life. 🙏 📿
Fr. Robinson,
I am someone who grew up in an American Protestant church and lost my way. I have nothing against my former church, but I am seeking a deeper, more liturgical form of Christianity found in Catholicism. Just reading your explanation of the rosary confirms my need of a grounded, more structured worship of Our Lord. Were I to become a Catholic convert, where would I begin? Am I too old? Thanks. I became familiar with you from the Megyn Kelly Show.
You are never too old. Contact a Catholic parish near you.
Thank you, Greg
Hi Joel, I was confirmed into the Catholic Church in 2018 and didn't become a "real Catholic" until November 2020, at the age of 55. I'm so happy and feel so blessed to be part of the Church. Come home; you won't regret it.
Hi Joel, I was a convert from Protestantism 30 years ago. Just go along to your local Catholic Church! You can attend Mass. Say hello to the priest, explain what you're looking for, and he will help you along the way. There are also lots of Catholic channels on YouTube, plus podcasts for and by Catholics, so you can have a look at all sorts of stuff at home in private. Follow where the Holy Spirit is leading you. I have found wonderful spiritual experiences in the Catholic Church, and have never looked back. All the best! 🙏
Thanks, Judith!
There are Anglican churches that have a more liturgical format without all the Catholic baggage.
Met my husband by praying the rosary. We met on AveMariaSingles. Then realized we grew up a few minutes away from each other. Twelve years later, 2 kids, countless challenges and we are stronger than ever.
Thank you, Sonia. Kudos to you and your family.
Since teaching my boys to pray the rosary (we are in RCIA now), they both are sleeping better.
I haven't noticed any specific changes in my own walk with the traditional rosary, but I have been using my one decade rosary to pray small prayers of thanks (I pray the traditional opening, then give thanks for one thing/bead in the decade, and finish up with the traditional closing prayers), and it has brought me so much contentment and peace!
Excellent biblical response. I quit reading when he called Mary the Mother of God. He has already said she was the temple of God - I am guessing her womb??
And to think that “ .... God gave the church to Mary” is outlandish.
Good on you for speaking truth to heresy.
Very telling that you stopped reading. You dislike truth.
This matter was settled at the ecumenical councils. Mary is the Theotokos. If you deny that, you deny His divinity. If you deny that, you are no Christian.
And you have the gall to come here and use the word heretic. You are one. Repent.
I had already read several untruths which I pointed out.
Jesus divinity is based on Mary being a virgin. She was Jesus physical Mother, not the Fathers. My belief in the Trinity is intact. You making Mary the mother of God is making the Trinity the quadinity.
If you write about your beliefs based on councils of men and not the bible, then you are trusting in men and not God alone.
I have a duty to speak truth to error.
If you cannot take criticism, don’t write.
Very well explained, Father C.
I am a former Protestant & Charismatic who made a commitment to Jesus as a teenager in 1974 - I converted to Catholicism in 1995. It was like "coming home" So many things made sense to me at last!
Mary is very real to me now too and she is my Mother too! And I meet Jesus in his totality in the Bread and Wine every Mass. What joy!
Daily Rosary is now normal for me and I have experienced great grace and spritiual power through it.
I can thoroughly recommend the writings and videos of Dr Brant Pitre, who explains so well the traditional church teachings by using scripture to show us where they came from.
Blessings!
I have prayed a daily Holy Rosary since 2020, I am a returned Catholic who reinstated my Faith in 2019 after decades in the wilderness.
It’s another form of dogma where from a very young age, Protestants are taught that Catholicism and praying to anyone other than God is considered paganism.
One of the reasons I left the Church many decades ago was because my youth pastor said that my best friend who is Catholic was going to Hell. I thought that was pretty presumptuous, judgmental, and above her pay grade. None of us know the path that God has for others. Plus, saying that someone else who believed in Christ was going to Hell was so bizarre to me that I just was so confused by it.
Even though I have many Protestant anti-Catholic dogmatic views, I fight against them today. I recently came to the conclusion that motherhood is a mess in Western society because people don’t look to Mother Mary as the ideal mother. Mothers in the West are lost.
I don’t know if I’m ready to pray to Mary yet but I wouldn’t rag on others for doing it. As long as we believe in Jesus, aren’t we on the same team???
More of the centuries long battle between Protestants and Catholics poking its head out. It’s crazy how long that stuff lasts without us understanding where it comes from.
My youth pastor…her pay grade. Well that was part of your problem right there. Any church that had a female pastor is in no place to judge the theology of others.
That is a sexist and untrue comment. Shame on you, that is not what the Catholic Church teaches or believes.
I’m not Catholic so I don’t care what heresy Catholics pursue, having said that Catholics do not use the title Pastor, they instead use the title Priest or Father. I’m fairly certain that the Catholic Church has rules against female priests. Or perhaps it does not but in more than 2000 years just hasn’t found a woman qualified for the job. The fact that women are not to serve as priests or pastors (the Protestant equivalent) is something that is consistent across the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, and Protestant churches of any level of orthodoxy. Both the Holy Scripture and tradition are united in the stance that the position of priest/pastor is to be held only by men.
Name one heresy Catholics pursue? Also, please share what you mean by "heresy"? Thank you.
By heresy I mean false doctrine and false gospel. Heresies; the role of the pope, the role of Mary, the role of the sacraments, indulgences, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the veneration of saints and icons and relics, the rather Catholic habit of killing people only to later name them saints, purgatory, the role of priests in confession, transubstantiation, the immaculate conception, mandatory celibacy of the priesthood, what is required for salvation…
There’s also the unfortunate reality that so few popes have had the character one would expect of someone who was the rightful successor of Peter. Not only the blatantly evil popes of the distant past but the more banal evil of the behavior of the pope during the Nazi and subsequently the Soviet era as well as the permissive evil of the current Pope. Then there’s the institutional cover up of the sexual abuse of both boys and girls that went on for decades. The Catholic run Indian Schools of Canada and the U.S. as well as boarding schools and orphanages elsewhere do not speak well of the Catholic Church as the Bride of Christ either although those things aren’t heresy so much as blatant and not particularly repentant sin.
i agree with all that you are saying but it's no use to say these things for when you are in a religion you are blind to a lot of things and the scriptures are completely taken out of context and interpreted to their agenda
If you believe heresy is false doctrine, what standard are you using to determine what is false and what is true?
Name one false doctrine you think the Catholic Church has. Name one false gospel. The Pope is the successor of St. Peter. Do you deny St. Peter had successors? What role do you think Mary (the Mother of God) has in the Catholic Church? Why should Christians not pray to saints? Why do you think sin is only an offense against God and not an offense against the Church and all Christians? Celibacy is not a requirement for all priestly ordinations.
The issue of women being ordained to the priesthood is controversial. Some Christian communities allow it, others don't. What is your point, and what does it have to do with the original post?
The Father has the final say. Not some church or christian community. This just shows how far from the truth so much of the world is. Makes sense though, as Satan is the ruler of this world.
My point is this person was in a
Protestant church that had terrible theology from the get go so their experience at said church should be understood in that light.
The issue of women in the priesthood isn’t controversial it’s clear cut, it’s only controversial among people who are wanting to sanctify their sin.
Wrong. Both Catholic and Orthodox Christian Churches do not ordain women to the priesthood. There are probably some other Christian denominations that also do not. So are you dismissing the theology and tradition of all Catholic and Orthodox Christians?
You didn't answer my question about Catholic heresy you proclaimed, and what you mean by heresy. Can you please do that?
Catholics routinely use the title "Pastor" to refer to the priest who is in charge of a parish. Try again, what is your problem with how Catholics use the term "pastor"?
I never heard the word pastor towards a priest, always father.
It’s my understanding that pastor in the Catholic usage is a colloquial term and that it is not used as an official title “Youth Pastor” is an official title and one I have never seen in any Catholic hierarchy anywhere. So I assume you have a lengthy list of female priests/pastors then? No you don’t. The Catholic equivalent is a Youth Minister, which is different than a Protestant Youth Pastor. Again I leave the Catholics to the heresies of their choosing but any Protestant church with a female Youth Pastor is in serious error and frankly cannot and should not be taken seriously.
Why do you say Youth Pastor is an official title? That may be true for your denomination but it is not true for Catholic Christians. Is it in the Bible?
The way our different Christian denominations use the term Pastor is not a matter of heresy. Is it? In your opinion?
No problem if your denomination uses Pastor in a different way than Catholics do. I am just sharing what it means to Catholics. Catholics have one Pastor in a parish.
As I said, Catholics routinely use the title Pastor to refer to the priest in charge of a given parish. Is that hard to understand? If you accuse Catholics of being in heresy please let us know why, and let us know how you define heresy. Thank you.
Then all the biblical forefathers, the Messiah and the Most High El are sexist? I don't want to use your phrases to chastise you, but you don't seem qualified to chastise anyone. ("try again", "shame on you", etc. etc. etc.?)
You are foolish to do this.
What do you think "Messiah" means and why? What makes you qualified to chastise me? Thank you.
HE POINTED OUT YOUR ERROR, YOU GET EMOTIONAL AGAIN. SADDUCEE.
Greg, why don't you know this? Messiah means anointed one. In your posts you seem to see yourself as qualified to instruct others. Your questions mean you have a lot of study to do.
Yes Messiah means Anointed One. At least you got that right. Why do you claim the Messiah is sexist? Do you understand that Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah? Why do you keep bringing up Most High El? Do you know any Christians who pray to the Most High El? Do you have some private understanding of God that causes you to use Most High El in contradiction to the Christian tradition??
You don't need to pray to Mary to be Catholic. Catholics pray to all saints, Mary most importantly, but that is different from worshipping Mary as if she was God. Catholics only worship the Triune God.
Father Robinson, thank you for this informative post. I have recently become Anglican and pray the Daily Office twice a day. I have never prayed the Rosary before, not out of opposition but more so not knowing how or fully understanding it. Do you have a recommendation on how to incorporate the Rosary into the Daily Office?
I pray them separately. But you have inspired me to think of a way to incorporate them. Let me know how you get on.
Thank you for your reply, Father. I’ll be sure to include your upcoming pilgrimage in my prayers.
Thank you for your wonderful clarity! Do let us all know when you've discerned a way to incorporate the two - I think a lot of us will love that dearly ♥️!
My son Aidan (you met him in Orlando last October) has incorporated a recitation of the rosary prayer and the "Hail Holy Queen" after the daily office and then he also includes a prayer to St Michael at the end. I don't have the St Michael prayer memorized as he does, but I join him in the rosary prayers when we pray vespers together.
I’m Anglican and pray the Daily Office and have been most recently praying the rosary.
Great to hear! The rosary and the Daily Office (aka the Liturgy of the Hours, or the Divine Office) are Christian. They both existed before the unfortunate Christian divisions that happened in the 16th century. Let's focus on what unites Christians.
Excellent post!
Thanks for this.
I'm Anglican in Australia.
I don't pray the rosary daily.
But I do pray it.
I have to hide this fact from my protestant friends. So I greatly appreciated this article and will pass it on!!!
I attend an Anglican Church in Vancouver and have also begun praying the rosary. Nice to know I have company.
Praying the rosary is a Christian tradition that existed long before the Protestant Reformation. The rosary is available to all Christians. No apologies needed.
They'd just think I was an into idolatry and either not talk to me or hang out with me that much.....
The way you pray personally is not idolatry. Prayer to God is not idolatry.
How could praying ever be wrong? One Bible verse that emphasizes the importance of prayer is 1 Thessalonians 5:17, which states, "Pray without ceasing." This verse suggests that prayer is always appropriate and encouraged.
Well... depending on what you pray, it could definitely be wrong and even an offense against God. I'm specifically thinking here of the "rainbow church" doctrines, like the "Sparkle Creed." It's an abomination. If you want to do this to yourself, you can read it here: https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023/7/20/a-new-interpretation-of-faith-the-story-behind-the-lgbtq-inclusive-sparkle-creed
Thank you for this email, Father. It is truly an answer to prayer. I recently began worshipping with a congregation belonging to the Anglican Network in Canada and have also begun praying the rosary. I have been praying for a greater understanding of it and a greater understanding of the role of Mary in the Church, and what you have written here helps immensely. May God bless you in your witness. Derek Frew. Vancouver, BC
Glad to have helped. God bless you. 🙏
I so admire and appreciate your clear, logical thought. I was raised in the Methodist church (former PK here), and have been Catholic for 12 years, and found everything you wrote to be accurate and truthful. I pray the Rosary every day and find it to be an excellent way to focus my mind and heart on Christ. Who can imagine themselves watching the scouring of Christ, seeing his flesh torn down to the bone over and over again, while his mother watches, and not be moved to tears? These mental exercises bring us closer to Christ and opens our hearts to the Truth of the Eucharist.
Well explained, Calvin. You have a gift of clarity and encouragement. Keep up the good work! 🙏
Thank you so much for this most timely post. I was raised aggressively Anti-Mary but since being confirmed in the ACNA have felt such a pull toward Our Lady. My parish is very Anglo-Catholic and my past upbringing still makes me have doubt but the Holy Spirit pulls me even more aggressively toward Mary. I find so much comfort in the Rosary. I cannot explain it. Your post came right as I was discerning a Marian consecration that my soul pulls me to but my past experience leads me away from. Thank you 🙏🏼
Caitlin, you might find encouragement and solace in the Marian 9 month novena by Cardinal Burke. It's already started, but you can jump right in. The site explains the reason for this particular novena and includes a consecration to Mary at the end of the 9 months (optional). God bless!
Thank you for the post Father. I recently read a sarcastic comment somewhere that if the Angel Gabriel says it, then it's scripture, but if we recite the Ave, it's vain repetition. Such logic can only come from not understanding and not wanting to understand.
Thank you so much Father Robinson for your thoughtful explanation of The Rosary . Excellent!!I will be forwarding it to anyone I know who is confused about the Rosary . Have a wonderful pilgrimage .Please pray for us here in America .That America and the world will turn back to God .May God Bless you Father. You are a true light in a dark world ,
Karen Gala ,York Maine USA
Great explanation, Father. I’m a cradle Catholic that left the church a while ago for a few years but have been back for about 20 years. I have many devout Protestant friends who object to Mariology and ask about “praying to Mary” (a “dead spirit”). 🤔 I have always found the explanation of the “Communion of saints” helpful. This is the idea that there are saints in three different arenas - the souls in Purgatory (Church Suffering), those on earth (Church Militant), and those in heaven (Church Triumphant). All are available to be asked to pray for us as intercessors, that they are simply spiritual “friends” that are no longer on earth, but alive in heaven. As I am able to ask an earthly friend to pray for me, so also I can ask the same of any member of the Communion of saints. This may be too much for Protestants to accept, but nonetheless may be helpful to more open minded ones.
Yes, at least from the Catholic Christian tradition, you can always ask (pray to) saints for their help and intercession. Praying to saints (or praying to our dear departed loved ones) is not idolatrous and is not worship. This is why Mary is so important to Catholic Christians. Pray in the way you see fit, according to the Christian Church you attend.
Quote: "All are available to be asked to pray for us as intercessors, that they are simply spiritual friends that are no longer on earth but in heaven."
You just need to very careful you don't pray to the wrong "spiritual friends" in heaven.
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places
I tried to send a note to @14quartodeciman. Do you keep the weekly and high sabbaths? This seems to suggest that you are a 14th keeper.
Well, similar but different. Don't keep the sabbath but we believe in 14 years tribulation rather only 7 years.
There are 7 years seals and 7 years of trumpets.
Who are the "wrong spiritual friends in heaven" that you refer to? Where are "wrong spiritual friends in heaven" referred to in the Bible? Thank you.
"wrong spiritual friends in heaven" makes me laugh. If we truly have spiritual friends in heaven, how could they be wrong? If we can't have spiritual friends in heaven, why do you bother trying to unsuccessfully refute that possibility?
Makes you laugh? He just quoted Ephesians. There powers in the heavens that hate us.
What does your last sentence mean? There?
sorry, I write fast and don't reread. There are spiritual powers in the heavenlies that are evil.
Fr. Robinson,
I love reading your posts. You make me want to convert to Catholicism every time I listen/hear you speak.
To ask a question as a convinced Protestant, in praying to the depart saints, what grounds to we have to assert that they now possess a level of omniscience that would be necessary to hear our prayers?
Follow-up: Given that Sacred Scripture is the only thing we possess that is God-breathed and possessing God's authority, does it not follow that Scripture is necessarily superior to oral Tradition?
Scripture is a subset of Tradition.
Where does the Bible come from? Who edited its books? Who decided which were canonical and which were apocryphal? Who articulated the idea of the divinely inspired and inerrant Word of God in the first place? All of these concepts come from Sacred Tradition.
Extra scriptural tradition is found even in Scripture itself. John’s gospel and the letters of Paul quote ancient hymns circulating in the early Christian community before the New Testament was even written.
Most importantly of all, Scripture plainly states that it is limited in John 21:25.
Thanks for the comment. Let me try and give some responses.
-Scripture primarily comes from God, via the Holy Spirit's inspiration of key men. Those men wrote/edited the books we now have.
-The believers passively received the books we now possess over time. If you are talking about the need for a Magisterial ruling, then the Church did not possess a Canon until 1546 when it was finally and infallibly defined. We can't use lesser counsels here, since those aren't allowed when Protestants try and use them.
-Scripture itself claims to be divine. I didn't really understand the concept of this coming from "outside of Scripture."
-Scripture's being "limited" or using popular imagery from other sources does not negate the fact that those items are preserved in the only collection of writings we possess that is God-breathed. Unless we have another source of this, it is by definition superior to anything else.
I hope we can have a charitable back and forth.
Let's do it! Here's the primary problem --
Scripture itself claims to be divine. I didn't really understand the concept of this coming from "outside of Scripture."
This is circular logic. Scripture is divine because Scripture says it is divine. How do we know that scripture is not lying? Because it's divine!
We need some outside source to break this vicious cycle. Scripture itself *tells you* that it does not contain everything there is to know about Jesus. Therefore, we must supplement it. Scripture is not *wrong*, but it is not the complete picture. This is my main point.
I'll go for a sub-point first. I don't see anywhere that Scripture tells us that "everything we need to know about Jesus" is not inside of its pages. It clearly tells us that there is more we could know: John, for example, was not exhaustive, but it does not follow from that that we needed to know all of those things.
There's a deeper issue here that comes up often. I'll do my best to unpack it. When we talk about breaking cycles by appealing to something else, that isn't helping our apparent problem. Whatever authority we have brought it must itself be validated, which, by the set standard, requires bringing in yet another source of authentication.
Now we are in the vicious conundrum of an infinite regression of authorities. We really only have two choices. We must (a) end up knowing everything in the universe to escape the infinite regression or (b) have a self-authenticating standard. No system of thought or belief can escape this. For Protestants, based on Scripture's testimony of being the Words of God, it is the highest authority and thus carries with it the grounds of its own evidence.
This goes farther than "Scripture is the Word of God because it says so." The late Greg Bahnsen did a marvelous job showing how Scripture provides in its pages the necessary foundations for all logical thought and existence, or the "preconditions of intelligibility." I think that's a bit much to go into here, plus most of his lectures are free on YouTube!
I completely agree that we need a way to break epistemic circularity. But I don't think that the Bible is the way out. Believing in the Bible means believing that the men who wrote it were divinely inspired and that it was divinely preserved throughout the ages. I think we should follow Euclid and make our postulates as small and self-evident as possible. We can't prove divine inspiration from first principles.
In your very first comment you said --
Given that Sacred Scripture is the only thing we possess that is God-breathed and possessing God's authority...
My goal was with this exchange was simply to show that this is not the case. We can and indeed *must* look in other places for foundations. The Bible itself says as much. Sola Scriptura is logically untenable.
But this comment thread is getting unwieldy. If you like, we can continue this discussion via email. Feel free to drop me a line at mxcollins@gmail.com. These things are important to talk about.
There are outside sources to see that the bible is accurate in history (although, you will find many scholars who don't agree).
Historically, I don't think many disagree about the Messiah's birth and death. Historically, I don't think many disagree that King David and King Solomon existed. Or Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The scriptures have been tampered with ("the lying pen of the scribes") There are many versions and scholars who are comparing them, trying to get to the truth of what is written.
Messiah's followers testify that he was resurrected and they gave their lives to bring this truth to us. They existed, they died horrible deaths. All we have is testimony and our own personal perusal of the world to see if much in scriptures are true.
Any way, I do know it's difficult and if you're sincere, I wish you a good journey.
Yes, Catholics believe the Bible is inspired. To be precise, Catholics do not "believe" (trust their faith to) the Bible. What Christians truly believe is articulated in the Christian Creeds (e.g. the Nicene Creed, the Apostles Creed, etc.). Christianity is not based on faith in a book, it is based on faith in God, most importantly as revealed through Jesus Christ. The Bible is an essential and constitutive element of the Catholic Church, no teaching of the Catholic Church can contradict the Bible (properly interpreted).
No, the Church had a canon long before the Council of Trent in 1546. The fact that the canon was not confirmed by an ecumenical council before then did not mean the canon did not exist.
Christians have Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is "God-breathed" and possesses God's authority. Jesus Christ predated the New Testament. Do you believe in God (Jesus Christ) or a book?
The bible (the "book") is how we know about Messiah.
No, we know about the Messiah from those who experienced the Messiah. They passed on their experience (Tradition) both orally and in written form.
Yes. I know the messiah and the father through the old and new testaments. Since the original apostles and disciples are now in the grave I don't converse with them orally.
The original Apostles and disciples did not know Jesus through the Old or New Testaments. The original Apostles and disciples knew Jesus in person. The New Testament did not exist until the original Apostles and their followers wrote it. Knowing the Scripture does not necessarily lead you to knowing God. Knowing God (Jesus Christ) is what helps you to properly understand Scripture. Just like the original Apostles and disciples.
no argument that the apostles and disciples knew the messiah personally. I've already said that.
As I said, anyone living today will only know the father, his son, and the father's plan for our salvation through the scriptures. We aren't the apostles or the disciples.
The people who wrote the Bible knew of God before the Bible existed. Fact.
What's your point? I've already said there were patriarchs following the law before the old testament (as I know it).
No. Scripture is as much a part of Tradition as the oral Tradition you cite. The Church existed before the Scriptures,, both for Jewish and Christian believers. Right?